For most people, Gregg Turkington is best known as his off-putting comedian, commonly referred to as America’s Funnyman, Neil Hamburger. Starting as a recording project in 1993, Turkington transformed Neil Hamburger into a stage act in 1999 and slowly became one the premiere underground comedians, travelling the globe and pushing the limits of stand-up comedy as we know it.
In 2015, Turkington finally seems to be crossing over into the mainstream, or at least closer than he’s ever been before. His collaborations with Tim Heidecker, Decker and On Cinema at the Cinema, have continued their oddball brand of humor across multiple seasons for Adult Swim. Turkington also had a brief but memorable appearance in Marvel’s Ant-Man this summer as the Baskin-Robbins manager, some might say the true villain of the film. Probably closer to his heart, however, is Entertainment, Turkington’s collaboration with co-writer Heidecker, and director and co-writer Rick Alverson. While Entertainment is a film that has Turkington playing the Comedian, a character that in his act and look is practically Neil Hamburger, the film is by no means a vehicle for Turkington’s onstage alter ego.
“I would do anything that Rick wanted, but it was a little weird because I had so much control for so long and, you know, you have to hand over some control if you’re doing a movie. It’s a little different than doing a record on a four-track cassette player,” Turkington said of his apprehension about putting his longtime character in the movie. “A lot of discussions had to take place, but I knew that they were all gonna lead to the right decision. It was all just a matter of hammering out the details and making sure that I felt comfortable so I could give a performance where I wasn’t on edge and unable to commit because I was clinging to something.”
“I think part of the invention of the Comedian character that riffs off of Neil Hamburger freed Gregg up and freed me up to do something that exists autonomously,” Alverson added. “A byproduct of that is that it complements the character off stage, but then we can concentrate on the work of the movie.”
“It would’ve been a drag if we had to create a little bible beforehand of all the rules for the character based on things that happened on records from 20 years ago,” Turkington said. “It would be like breaking both of my knees before we started shooting.”
“Obviously,” Alverson said of using Turkington’s character in the film, “the fans of what Gregg does as Neil Hamburger are understandably devoted and believe, frankly, unfortunately for Gregg sometimes, that the character is more ubiquitous than it is. Half the people watching this movie don’t know who the character is. So we had to consider that and I think that’s part of this idea of not wanting to make a promotional vehicle that sort of infringes on what he does on stage and also requires that the audience have that prerequisite. That kind of limits the audience for the movie. This is a best of both worlds.”
“By not actually using the name it doesn’t feel like Master of Disguise with Dana Carvey or Chairman of the Board with Carrot Top, although those are both great. I don’t want to knock them,” Turkington said.
“For people who don’t have interest in that character,” Alverson added, “it could be watched unencumbered by that. Part of the rigor and success of the Neil Hamburger character is that it isn’t for everyone. It isn’t gonna be.”
“Although, if you’re a fan, come see what we’ve put together. You may get some laughs in amongst the tears,” Turkington said with a smile.
But Entertainment isn’t the first time that Rick Alverson has subverted audience expectations with a headlining comedy star. His last film, The Comedy, starred Heidecker and was by no means a film that met the expectations of the comedian’s audience. “I think it’s a bridge and a gap to some degree,” the director said when asked if he enjoys subversion of expectations. “Except for my exposure to what Gregg and Tim do, I’m not really a part of that world at all – the comedic world. We’re bridging a gap and have mutual interest in discomfort and things. At the same time, both Gregg and Tim, I know, appreciate and understand that they’re doing a disservice to their audiences if they give them exactly what they want all the time. That’s just bad protocol. It’s also not in keeping with the high standards they have for creativity.”
When I called 2015 the Year of Gregg Turkington due to his roles in Ant-Man, Entertainment, and other projects, the actor and comedian had a simple reply: “Let’s not go too far.”
“It’s weird but I don’t feel like I’m doing anything that different,” Turkington elaborated. “It’s just weird that anyone is paying attention. Like that Marvel thing, I don’t know, I’ve had the same point of view I’ve always had about what I liked and didn’t like. I don’t feel like I’m doing anything that different. For some reason, a few folks are tuning in, which is great.”
“Like the older you get,” he continued, “you hope that you’re learning things along the way about how to do your job better. I don’t know. It is strange. The Ant-Man thing is very strange. It’s strange talking about these things out of character.”
But when Gregg Turkington talks about being out of character, it can open up its own set of questions. After all, Turkington hasn’t just crafted a character out of Neil Hamburger, but himself as well in episodes of On Cinema. “I’d say as a rule if it’s taking place in front of a camera or on a stage it’s probably not real,” he answered when I asked about the line between himself and his multiple characters. “Even if it’s a documentary or something. We’re trying to say something, trying to entertain, and whole bunch of other things. I wouldn’t say that the guy who is reviewing movies and the guy that’s sobbing in the swimming pool are too similar to me, right?”
“There’s a diversity of fabrications, including this we’re experiencing right now,” Alverson added to Turkington’s observations.
“If you’re listening to people in show business I wouldn’t take any of it too seriously as gospel truth, especially if they’re telling you that it is,” Turkington said as if warning me to be skeptical of this entire interview.
“How much is anybody themselves at a dinner party?” Alverson asked me. When I replied that it depended on the level of wine consumption, he added, “Alcohol is the great equalizer.”
“That’s the pull quote,” Turkington quipped.
“That’s really what the movie is about – drinking,” Alverson replied facetiously.
The turn towards conversing about alcohol quickly returned to Entertainment. “And you know,” Turkington added, “a lot of those shows that you see in the film might have a boozy sort of atmosphere, but due to the realities of securing locations for filming, a lot of those shows were taking place at eight in the morning. There was anything but a boozy atmosphere.”
When I asked Alverson about one of the film’s more enigmatic characters, he was quick in reducing it to its basics. “You know, it’s exactly what you think it is,” the director said. “There’s a lot of really one-dimensional stereotypes and clichés in the movie that are building blocks for most narratives. There are like 15 narratives out there – probably less than that, there are seven narratives that every popular movie uses. This dips into those on the surface as a kind of language for the thing and a structure, and it gets disorienting from there.”
Later, when I asked about the desert locations of the film, Alverson reiterated his point: “That’s in keeping with what we were saying about this sort of stereotypes of the desert as a place of spiritual renewal and the idealized, unattainable female presence. That’s in keeping with what I said earlier about constructing the thing out of the raw materials of narrative clichés.”
Entertainment features a few guest stars along the Comedian’s travels, including Heidecker, John C. Reilly, Harry Dean Stanton, and Michael Cera in an especially unsettling scene in a roadside restroom. “We had him for about seven hours in that bathroom,” Alverson said of Cera’s brief appearance. “Have you had Michael Cera in a bathroom for seven hours?” He asked me, knowing that I had, in fact, not had Michael Cera in a bathroom for seven hours.
“When he got into the vehicle from LAX and was driven out to the location,” Turkington added, “I wonder how much his heart sank when he saw that it was the public rest area of Boron, California.”
Alverson was effusive in his praise of Cera. “A very gracious, sweet sport to come out and huff urine for seven hours in the desert,” he said. “God bless him.”
“The worst movie set of all-time,” Turkington said of the rest area in Boron. “We couldn’t even stop the public from coming in during filming. That was one of the requirements. The State of California says, ‘If you want to shoot in one of our public restrooms, okay, but you can’t close it down to the public.’”
“So we had people coming in and pissing while we’re shooting,” Alverson explained of his challenging shooting location, which quite possibly could wind up being the oddest footage to wind up on a cutting room floor.
Another one of the supporting players is Tye Sheridan as Eddie, a mime that frequently opens for Turkington’s Comedian. “That’s just the end of something,” Alverson said of the character’s anachronistic act. “How much further can it go than a clown shitting in his hat? It’s the end of something. It’s entertainment reduced to its most fundamental components.”
“Just getting the crowd excited,” Turkington chimed in on the character’s purpose. “I don’t even need a show, I’m just gonna get you all riled up.”
But this thought quickly lands Turkington in a question of pronunciation that has dogged us all, and has become the source of a never-ending debate. “The scene where I’m slumped up against the wall watching his show at the beginning, you could probably just excerpt that into a ten-second gif,” he said, using a distinct J sound with gif.
“Is it jif or gif?” Alverson asked Turkington.
“To me, it should be jif.”
“Is it two Fs or one F?”
“It’s one.”
“Jif would need two Fs.”
“Jif peanut butter is J-I-F.”
“But that’s J.”
While there is a stalemate between the comedian and the director over the pronunciation of gif, the mutual respect between the two was always obvious. They’re each proud of Entertainment, as they rightfully should be. They made a film that doesn’t fit into any conventional boxes. Is it a drama? Is it a comedy? It doesn’t matter. Like my conversation with Rick Alverson and Gregg Turkington, it’s just Entertainment.
Entertainment is currently available on VOD and is playing in select theaters. In Southern California, it will be playing at Cinefamily and The Frida Cinema.
